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  1. #1
    tradtke Guest

    wisconsin carry concealed

    Everyone is so Anxious to carry concealed but does anyone know the deadly force laws? does anyone know what you need defined by Wisconsin Statute what you need to articulate to use deadly force? You need to articulate Weapon, intent and delivery system, do you know what that even means. You need to have target identity, acquisition, and isolation, do you know what that means. Escape is also a requirement, you need to prove you were not able to escape. you can't just shoot someone because you thought you were in danger, you have to actually BE in danger.
    It takes 2.1 seconds for an average person to pull a weapon and fire it. Are you going to be able to identity all this in under 2 seconds. Furthermore you need to react, not think. So within those 2.1 seconds you can't think, you just have to know. even further, It is proven that it takes a minimum of 2000 repetitions before a reaction becomes muscle memory. Muscle memory is being able to react without thinking. If you do not know a reaction in your muscle memory, chances are you will forget how to use your weapon, panic and get it taken away by your attacker. even FURTHER, do you even know what the definition of deadly force is or the behavior which justify's it. YES, you even need to know this in that 2.1 seconds mentioned earlier. What gives me the right to say all this..I've gone the police academy. I've carried armed, and I've had to make those use of force decisions. I've had to make those calls in 2.1 seconds, and YES, I've drawn and fired my weapon WAY more than 3,000 times. It scares the crap out of me that people, good citizens or not, will be carrying guns. As a police officer or a citizen, I want to know everyone who has a gun. I understand its a right, but just because one can, does not mean we should. I can't tell you how much I would love to put people through a sudden assault scenario and I would put money on it that over 95% of the people would fail and probably not even get their hand on their gun, the people who do get there guns out will pause for that 1 second because they are not 100 percent sure...that one person is going to cost them their life, or they are going to shoot for the wrong reasons and an innocent person is going to die. Bullets don't come back once you pull that trigger. Can you articulate the laws, use a weapon without thinking while in a panic state. I know I can, but I'm not sure of the majority of others. I'd rather sacrifice my right to carry concealed in order to protect myself from those others who do it, only on principle and would Fail, if put in a real scenario. I don't care what other state statistics say, If it passes there are going to be Thousands of people rushing out to buy guns, just because they can, thousands of inexperienced people carrying guns.

    if you have an interaction with a police officer and you are identified as carrying a weapon even legal. he has the right to Detain and handcuff you until the interaction is complete. Are you willing to be handcuffed? Just because your in cuffs does not mean your under arrest, but a police officer only has the information he has at the moment. Depending on the situation they have the discretion to detain you or not. If you choose to carry a gun you better not complain if an officer decides to put you in handcuffs until he feels safe.

    We have the right to protect ourselves, but we do not need guns to do that. There are a lot of things that can happen to us that we legally can't use guns to protect ourselves from.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Re: wisconsin carry concealed

    Welcome to the forum

    Some interesting stats, assuming that they are all correct. This may sound odd, but i just wondered at the reasoning behind the post? Not many people make such a lengthy, statistic filled post just off the top of their head.

    In my country its almost an impossibility to have concealed carry even for personal protection. I personally believe it should be permissable, given the required regs are adhered to.

    Cheers

  3. #3
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    Re: wisconsin carry concealed

    We have the right to protect ourselves, but we do not need guns to do that. There are a lot of things that can happen to us that we legally can't use guns to protect ourselves from.
    You raise a very interesting point here. Protecting ourselves from harm is not straightforward, be it medical harm or harm from guns.

    Guns may not kill people, as the NRA argues, but if there are no guns, noone can shoot people either. Most gunshot fatalities in the US are in the familial sphere. As you stated, someone carrying a gun in a threatening situation, is much more of a potential threat than someone who does not, and people will act, rightly or wrongly, upon the perceived threat.

    Sadly, because the weapons are now so common, it is next to impossible to turn things around, even moreso in the US, where the 2nd Amendment is deemed by many people to be the most important one.

    I really wonder how much more likely it is if you are armed you can prevent a shooting, versus, when you are unarmed (with you being a potential target). I would think your average criminal is less inclined to shoot at unarmed people, than at armed people.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  4. #4
    tradtke Guest

    Re: wisconsin carry concealed

    I don't have a problem with people protecting themselves, but I think that the reasons for this such a hot topic is not because of protection is because people want to just because they think they have the right to. There are a lot better ways to protect yourself such as knoledge of how to make yourself a less desirable target. Just think about how much force the educational system would have if people argued half as much as they do for CCW.
    People think its just that easy, you carry a gun and use it when needed. It's not that easy. the sad thing is that in reality CCW law is all political, it has nothing to do with a need. the NRA is like a little kid. "well that state can do it, we should be able to"
    Another good example is with women carrying pepper spray. I'm not saying that women shouldnt be allowed to do it, but its not likely that the majority of them practice using it. Most carry in a nice leather case and it makes them feel better. True, but chances are they don't even know how to use it, let alone use it in a panic state of mind.
    My best recomendation is to carry a small Airhorn. Have you ever been blasted in the face with an Airhorn? it will have the same desired outcome. Not to mention make a lot of noise so people will look whats going on. Criminals hate noise so even if no one is around they are not going to take the chance. An airhorn is so much easier to use. It can't be used against you because what are they going to do, blow the airhorn themselves..not likely. WOW, i came to this conclusion through education of whats the best way to protect yourself and I don't need a gun to do that. I used education. We should be putting our efforts into education, not the right to carry guns.

  5. #5
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    Re: wisconsin carry concealed

    I dont know

    I sort of think its better to be tried by a jury of 12 than carried by pallbears totalling 6.

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