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  1. #51
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Her motives are really hard for me to get at right now.. being realistic, this whole thing may have started because of confusion and us moving and her not being a stay at home type of personality. I feel as if it's morphed into a bit of "the grass is greener" and maybe a feeling as if she's missing out on something by being in a committed long term relationship right now.

    She is looking for a counsellor. Right now for making ends meet she doesn't have much of a plan. Her only income is my support payments and a small amount from the government.

    Really I am dealing with the fact that she may never come back. I know though, that if this is a case of she wants to see if the grass is greener that it may be for 6 months or a year. And TRUST me I'm not a cocky guy, but I know I'm pretty good looking, have a great job that pays pretty well for a guy in his mid/late-20's, and she'll have a really hard time finding a guy that treated her as well as I did.

    I'm really confident that when she gets through whatever this is she'll want to come back. At the same time I know I can't keep thinking like that, I have to let it go because it could be years, or never.

    Really in my own mind I think going on this trip at the least will be a good cross roads for me to come out the other side. We'll have been separated 2 full months at that point.

    My goal with the whole pick me up from the airport thing is to give her a gentle push into really sitting down and thinking about things. I know I can't pressure or force a decision, this is all about her and what she wants. Actually she was trying to force herself to make a decision and I talked her out of it. I don't want her making a decision to come back (or leave) before she is sure that's what she wants.

  2. #52
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
    I know I can't pressure or force a decision, this is all about her and what she wants. Actually she was trying to force herself to make a decision and I talked her out of it. I don't want her making a decision to come back (or leave) before she is sure that's what she wants.
    You know what you intended to do here. But does she? This may also explain some of her more confusing behavior, since she may not be entirely certain what to make of you either.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  3. #53
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    I explained why, she was basically saying every 10 minutes her head was in a different place, so I told her she shouldn't force herself to make a decision if she's not ready. Especially if that decision would be different 10 minutes later. To say I talked her out of it was maybe a bit strong.

  4. #54
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    That whole conversation came up because she was on my Facebook and saw the conversation someone started with me where I found out she had been with another guy.

    She called me and said she felt like she had to make a permanent, final decision of get back together or stay separated.

    I told her there was no decision to make, she had already left and we were separated. And if she made a decision to get back together but every 10 minutes she felt like she had made the wrong one, we were going to fail.

    She agreed with me. So I told her let's keep going and talk when I get back from Chicago.

  5. #55
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
    I explained why, she was basically saying every 10 minutes her head was in a different place, so I told her she shouldn't force herself to make a decision if she's not ready. Especially if that decision would be different 10 minutes later. To say I talked her out of it was maybe a bit strong.
    That is clear then. But nonetheless it is something to be continuously aware of that your behaviors too can add to her confusion. From what you have been posting it seems you have done a more than decent job not to do that.

    That she oscillates between 'yes' and 'no' is not the end of the world, even in a committed relationship. We all have our doubts at more difficult junctures in our relationships. The real problem is that she finds it difficult to express what she feels she is missing.

    Perhaps the grass is greener at the other side of the fence. It seems she is not certain of that, nor of the contrary. I am sure your wife is battling with many uncertainties and doubts. Life has taken certain twists and turns for her, and though it is relatively easy to imagine life being completely different, realistically speaking she has to operate with relatively tight constraints, especially as she has a child (and neither you or your wife strike me as people who would happily disappear out of their child's life).

    The problem with life-altering decisions is that you can only tell afterwards if it was the right decision. There is no way to know beforehand with absolute certainty that a decision is the right one. Sometimes, life requires taking a leap of faith. Perhaps she is looking for certainty, when due to the question there is no certainty to be had beforehand.

    I really hope your wife makes some serious work of finding a counselor. A bit of clarity in her own mind would probably make a world of difference to her and to you as well.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  6. #56
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    I've tried to be as emotionally steady as possible, and open and available to her when she wants it, but not reach back (there have been a few moments of weakness).

    I wanted her to start counselling this week. I think the fact she believes there's something to work on and figure out with herself is a positive. Even realizing the outcome of therapy/counselling may not be what I want, at least she's willing to put the effort in to find out.

  7. #57
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    I think the timing of this trip will be good. I've really made a concentrated effort to stay away from her and not even talk to her unless about our son or she reaches out to me for the last week and a half. I'll be continuing that from now on, it gets easier to do every day. And with being out of the country for a week and hopefully some counseling, after that I think it really will be a step towards having a better idea of what she wants.

    So Luba thinks the airport pickup is a good idea - what are the potential negatives of doing that, that you see Vautrin? You think I'd be putting unfair pressure on her?

    I plan for it to be very gentle pressure, maybe just a little reminder that she needs to sit down and think about things.

    I've also made it very clear that I'm not looking for a commitment that we're going to get back together for the rest of our lives. I haven't told her exactly, but I want to take any reconciliation slowly, and start with some dating/doing things we enjoy together, and build it back up hopefully to where we were.

  8. #58
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyd, original post
    She had not even started College when she became pregnant, and she believed strongly in being a stay at home Mom.
    This may well play a role in the situation. It should be noted, that no matter what decision we make, we are by no means guaranteed to be happy with the consequences for the rest of our lives. She may have loved spending time with your son, but she may have hated not being in a work environment of some sorts. Being a young and responsible mother, she may miss the party scene, etc.

    How is her current life different from married life? Trying to understand the changes that she must have lived through as a result of the separation may well help you in understanding her perspective a bit better, as well as what she is trying to achieve with her actions, and how she tries to understand herself.

    Since becoming an adult she has more or less always been involved with you. You said that she finds it difficult to be on her own, and it is obvious that the work-induced separation certainly added to her confusing experiences. But it seems quite likely that (she has come to value / values) her independence much and trying to encroach on it, may spectacularly backfire.

    The problem I see with forcing the issue is that she may well feel that if she does not show up, that that is sending out a clear message to you. Even if she is confused, as she is at the moment, that will prove a drastic change. I am not sure she is able to handle such changes at the moment
    As a consequence, she may well show up, despite being confused about things, as it would be the safe option. And thus leaving you with hope that is not substantiated by her experiences and desires. Note, that she probably would not even be consciously aware of her thought processes about the matter.
    If you feel you are able to handle such a situation in which it is not clear what the driving force is behind her actions, then by all means go for it. But it does set yourself up for heartache.

    What I would do in the last meeting before going to Chicago?
    - Make it clear you love her and your son.
    - Gently ask her what she will be doing in the time you are in Chicago. Certainly do not push for details, unless you have obvious reasons to be concerned for your son. She needs to sort her life out, and you cannot take charge of that. The better she feels about herself, the more willing she probably will be to share some of the details.
    - What you can do, is that if she reaches out for you, to encourage her to keep on making the positive steps that she mentions. For instance, if she goes to counseling, and she makes it clear it is beneficial for her, encourage her to keep going.
    - Give her some initiative. If she proposes (and this may well happen when you are in Chicago then) to come and pick you up from the airport, let her.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  9. #59
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    How is her current life different from married life?
    You know I've asked myself that the last week or so. Really it's not much different.

    She's still a stay at home Mom.
    She goes out with the same people, to the same places, for the most part.
    She gets from support payments a lot less money then she had with me.

    Through our relationship anytime she wanted to go out I would stay home with our son. There were a ton of times her parents would watch our son and we could go out together.

    So if anything me taking my son every other weekend and twice a week is probably letting her go and party less then when she was when we were married.

    The biggest difference is that she lives in her hometown full time, and lives with her best friend now.

    I have no doubt her feeling of independence is a huge issue here, and probably one of the biggest catalysts for this series of events. I have told her and I truly believe that.. I can't MAKE her happy, and I also have a hard time believing that our relationship was solely the reason she felt/feels like she is. I also wouldn't be surprised if she feels like she's missing out a bit, as her two best friends left long term relationships and are definitely leading a bit of a wild lifestyle.

    I'm actually a little worried that money may push her back towards me. I know she's been out partying and drinking quite a bit - a lifestyle thats not so cheap. On limited income and with rent coming up in less then a week I think it'll be challenging on her. That's not the reason I want her to come back.

  10. #60
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Well this week has been interesting.

    On Monday she came to our old house to pack.

    On Tuesday I drove her home.

    Wednesday I took a load to her house and stayed for a little bit, ended up staying there late and talking (not about the situation.. just talking) until 2:30 AM, and I went home.

    Thursday I took another load of stuff to her house, she wanted to go out with some friends so I stayed and put our son to bed, then fell asleep on her couch.. when she got home one of her friends was pass out drunk so the friend got my wife's bed and my wife got on the couch with me.. well guys, I gave in last night/this morning and we had sex.

    Whether that was a good or bad move only time will tell... She still seems extremely confused but since everything that's happened got into the open she's been much more emotionally open and things seem to be going in a positive direction again, at least from my perspective..

  11. #61
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    You are only human Andy. You can't be perfect all the time, especially in a confusing situation as you find yourself in. The emotional openness seems to be positive.

    Even though it seems to be taking a positive direction, be careful of getting your hopes up. She is still confused, and hence her actions will remain a bit unpredictable. And when you raise your hopes, and her actions do not match up with your expectations, you'll end up disappointed and confused even more.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  12. #62
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Thanks Vautrin,

    The hope has crept in there a tiny bit but I'm keeping it subdued

    I plan to let her initiate anything that happens, see where she goes with all of this this week.. then it's Chicago next week and I think the week in different countries may help.

    I was definitely glad I was able to spend the night at her place and show her the side of me she hasn't seen in a few weeks.. made coffee, made breakfast for her and her house-mate, gave her a drive to the mall and then took my son for the night.

    Long weekend, 4 day work week and then Chicago... Lots to keep me busy

  13. #63
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Just checking in.. I finished the move yesterday. Living with my brother today. Obviously a tough day.

    Unfortunately with all the emotions flying around with the move and I made a bit of a mistake.

    I asked her if she wanted to go to the drive-in (her room-mate works there and we get in free) and she said she was already going by herself. So I started thinking on the "Why would she want to go by herself?" "Why doesn't she want to go with me?" lines and got freaked out. After the last few weeks I was a little worried she was going with another guy. Like Vautrin said.. only human.. definitely a day of weakness.

    I really believe she just wasn't ready to see me on a date.

    So I'm backing way off again, I'm going to see my son Wednesday and Friday night then out of the Country for the following week.

  14. #64
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
    I really believe she just wasn't ready to see me on a date.
    Probably. It is easy to assume the worst when we don't hear what we want to hear. Back off for a bit, spend some time on yourself. Since you are now living with your brother, I hope you can distract yourself with family, or perhaps even make yourself useful to him (i.e. small stuff around the house).

    Try not to worry too much, as difficult as it is. You are only human, and you are bound to worry a bit, or make the occasional mistake. Just don't beat yourself up for it.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  15. #65
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    How are you doing, Andyd?
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  16. #66
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Hey Luba,

    I had my son last night and my wife and I spent some time together after he went to bed. It was pretty good. I'm kind of getting used to this as my life while I'm in this "transition state"... Not sure how things will go but I'm preparing for either way, and still want more then anything to work on my marriage. Whether that will happen or not is her choice still of course

    Trying to stay back and give her space while she deals with whatever it is she's dealing with. I've been pretty successful for the last month with a few hiccups.. Have to get used to the fact that I can't initiate much, she has to be the one to do it... Which is tough

  17. #67
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Thank you for your response, Andyd, just want you to know you are in my thoughts and prayers as well as your wife; sending you both positive thoughts.

    You know you are one of the family and just keep us in your life; we care for you!

    It's good that you are facing any alternative, too.
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  18. #68
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Hi Andyd

    Mate, ive just been sitting back and reading, merely because i really cant offer anything of value, no great advice or words of wisdom.

    But watching how this is all unfolding, i thought it was time to stop in and tell you that i can see now that you are coping really well, things may not be happening as fast as you would like but you are holding up well, thinking clear, you appear to be looking after yourself and that is a HUGE benefit.

    You should be very proud because what you have and will continue to go through for a while, certainly isnt easy.

    Keep dropping by because believe me when i say, chatting and venting in here really can help you. I think we can see that by how well you are coping.

    Great stuff Andyd

  19. #69
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Hi Snooks!!

    Thanks .. appreciate it I really plan to stick around and be a part of the family.. of course life takes us a lot of places but I just think this place is awesome.

    Well we were supposed to meet up for a bit tonight to talk before I left but she forgot I was leaving tomorrow???? (wtf!) and so I sent her an e-mail with what I wanted to say. I'll actually copy and paste it with names removed...

    Hey hun,

    Well I was hoping to say this all to you in person, but it's okay I understand you're busy and have plans. It's baby free night

    I want you to know before I go that I love you, and I love our son. I want you back more then anything, and I'm willing to put any amount of effort into our relationship, but only if you're going to be able to give me the love and respect back that I deserve. We both know this will fail if you're going to only be into this with half your heart, or if there are serious doubts in your mind that you're making the right choice.

    Before 2-3 months ago I saw myself buying a house in a couple years, seeing you graduate college, I had a few hundred $ saved in a special place for us to go to an all inclusive or to europe or something for our anniversary next year, I saw you beside me in the first new car I bought, maybe one day the mother of another child - or us adopting one when we were ready. Once you were working a good job after College I thought we'll be set - money to travel.. money for whatever we want with the right planning. That's what I want out of life still. In all of my dreams over the last 6 years it's always you standing right there beside me. This is the first time in our relationship I've questioned even a little bit whether you're going to be there.

    Hunny I'm forgiving things I never thought I'd be able to forgive, things I *told myself* I'd never forgive if someone did them to me again, but for some reason I feel like with you I'll be able to get over them with no problem as long as I have your love and support. With that said, I hope you realize what some of those things have done to me.

    I want nothing more in life then for us to grow as a family, to come home to you and our son every night. To go to learn how to dance with you. Maybe improve my white boy moves a bit To Kayak, rock climb, date and rediscover why we fell in love with each other in the first place again.To travel the parts of the world we want together. To buy our first house together. There are so many firsts ahead of us if you want there to be. I still cherish every moment I have with you, your smile lights up my day and you're the most amazing, beautiful woman in the world.

    I asked you like 10 times when this started "Why are you so sure this is our relationship??" I really feel like this is way bigger then our relationship. That there's some things you definitely need to work through on your own. I know the last year hasn't been the best, but I also know I've been amazing to you throughout our relationship. And you've been amazing to me.

    I'm going to Chicago, I know you may not decide to be with me when this is all said and done - but I'll promise you again that I'm not going to sleep or fool around with anyone. No matter what happens it's going to be a long time before I'm ready for anything like that.

    I want more then anything in the world for you to be happy. Maybe for whatever reason (and I know it's not cause you want this to be happening) you may not be happy with me. I just don't believe that's true. And I will move on if I have to. But don't make me

    Take your time to work through whatever this is, and figure out what you want. As you said - we're actually in a pretty good spot considering the last few months, we both still love each other and want each other to be happy. Life, and our relationship isn't a sprint. I'm here for whatever you need, but trust me I know you're doing just fine on your own.

    Again, I love you and I love our son so much. Hope you're having a great night. And I'll call you to let you know I'm safe in Chicago tomorrow. You don't need to reply to this.. we can talk when I get back if you want.

    Have a great one
    I'm a little embarrassed posting the whole thing.. but I figure why not.. if it helps someone out in the future might as well put it out there Plus the internet is great cause of the anonymity

    Hopefully I got what I wanted to tell her in person across.

  20. #70
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Nice email. I would not worry too much about her mixing the dates up. The most important thing is that you said what you wanted to say, and hopefully the two of you are using your time apart well.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  21. #71
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    When something moves me, I speak to the Nth degree on it, and, andyd, your email moved me that much; extremely beautiful! I took in every word slowly and tears filled my eyes the further I got in reading it.

    I'm going to say you are truly a beautiful man, a loving husband; I would think any woman would treasure a man like you! You've put your Heart out to her in it, and I truly hope that she responds and works her way back to you.

    Thank you for posting it, andyd, deeply touching and beautiful!
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  22. #72
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Thanks guys We talked on the phone and she has reached back a bit, but I'm not getting my hopes up until I see some real effort.. Chicago has been amazing their night life is craaaazy.. glad i have some self control as I've already had opportunities to not keep my promise

    If anyone hasn't been and gets the opportunity do it.. the only downer is their tourist attractions close at 5 PM on weekdays so I can't get there after work finishes.. but I got to the Shedd aquarium on Sunday. Pretty sweet.

  23. #73
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Does not sound like my kind of place then. Nightlife is really not something that agrees with me.

    Just try to enjoy your time in Chicago Andy.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  24. #74
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    I'm glad you had a nice time, andyd!

    I'm also glad that you found out you are charming to other women if I read your post correctly!
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  25. #75
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Hey guys,

    On Wednesday night I got a call from my wife, she was crying and devestated because she missed me and because she was worried I would sleep with someone out of revenge.

    I did everything I could to assure her I wouldnt (and I definitely didn't!) And we met up and talked on Friday. Spent some time together, she seems much more "positive" right now and we spent a good part of the weekend together with our son. She's still confused but I think we're heading in a good direction. I'm still trying to not get my hopes up, Although I do feel slightly positive. I'm trying to stay prepared for more moodiness and quick emotional turns.

    Anyway my goal is to remain loving and supportive of her, to be a good Dad while she's figuring this out, and to continue to do things I enjoy and make sure I remain focused at work, which is becoming easier.

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