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  1. #76
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Sounds like a healthy approach to a confusing situation Andy. Hopefully soon the pieces start falling in their place.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  2. #77
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    It's important to have balance in one's life and it sounds like that's what is happening with you, andyd. Good for you!
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  3. #78
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    I really appreciate your guys positive moral support!

    We had our talk last night. It was actually really good as far as openness, and honesty. She's identified a few issues she has that she needs to work on, the biggest one is something Vautrin already pegged.

    She feels she's "Missing out on something" because she never had a dating phase of life.. she basically went from a bad relationship, went on some dates for a few months then into us dating exclusively and then a serious relationship with me. But she also said she misses me more then anything, that the week in another country really opened her eyes to how much she missed me, and she still thinks we're perfect for each other, but she can't get past the feeling of missing out on something yet.

    I understand, she's 24, she's a good looking woman and seeing the lifestyle her friends are leading probably gave her the feeling of missing out and possibly grass is greener. I told her I understand, and that she needs to do what's going to make her happy. I stressed there's nothing wrong with what she wants, and just tried to listen to her.

    She also said she feels horrible for sleeping with someone before she was figuring out what she wants. That she isn't seeing anyone, and isn't sleeping with anyone. I do believe and trust her, and I let her know that.

    She brought up a bunch of other issues, independence (shes been tied to my income for 4 years now, and still is, really.. although there's nothing wrong with that.. if she wasn't in our marriage taking care of our child I'm sure she would have furthered her career and be working right now), really all of them I think we can work past.

    It's mostly this feeling of missing out on something and whether she can get past it.

    She does definitely seem much more positive, and even reached out to spend time with me this weekend, and asked to spend time with me on Friday. I didn't ask her about therapy as I told her it's up to her to take the initiative to find a therapist.

    Anyway, still not getting my hopes up. I plan to be there for her and support the openness and honesty as much as possible, she seems to be unable to talk to any 1 person about the entire situation, so I'm trying to be that person, even if it's just to listen.

    After our talk we said we'd have another in depth talk in 2 weeks, or sooner if she wants to talk to me.

  4. #79
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Life is also about coming to accept that you can't do everything in it. That is the lesson your wife needs to learn, on her own terms. This does not only apply to checking out other "options", in terms of people to date, but also in terms of her career, and the lifestyle she may be aiming for.

    Like all of us, she only has one life, and it is over before you know it (I am 31 ). We can't do everything, and we have to make peace with the decisions we make, have made, and were made for us when could not make decisions ourselves.

    If that is her main issue, then seeing a counselor may be beneficial, but it certainly is not the only way for her to learn. Speaking with (older) people may also help her in ways she does not imagine.

    Don't get your hopes up too much, but don't be all doom and gloom either. There is still a long road ahead.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  5. #80
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    So, need some advice.

    Since I got back from Chicago things have been pretty good. She's expressed a lot of genuine love and put effort into seeing me and expressed her feelings pretty well.

    She's reaching out to spend a lot of time together, for instance she asked to see me last friday and again this friday, as well i rented a movie to watch with my brother last night (I had my son at his house) and she rented the same one and stayed in so we could watch it at the same time and talk about it.

    She hasn't expressed in words any commitment to trying to work things out, but I feel as if by her actions she is starting to. Its a tough spot to either go with it, cause obviously I want to or wait for more of a verbal commitment from her before spending too much time together again.

    I feel as if the time together is going really well so I will probably continue it but allow her to initiate the next few dates.

  6. #81
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    I am not sure what you are asking.

    What also might be an idea is to say "No" on occasion. Not saying you should be rude about it, but you should be a bit wary of her depending too much on you and others, thus allowing her the opportunity not to deal with her issues.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  7. #82
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    I guess I'm not quite sure what I'm asking either. I guess I kind of feel like I want her to miss me (which she obviously does) but it confuses me that she wants to spend a lot of time together yet still hasn't taken that step to go to counselling and is not willing to say we're "trying", at least verbally, but all of her actions are pointing at her trying, and of course I'm reciprocating the effort. I guess I'm just hoping this is a healthy way of going about this.

  8. #83
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    That is somewhat worrying Andy. Because you can't be sure if you are what she wants, or if you are "just" temporarily filling a void in her life. You must not forget, that she does know herself either. She has not made a decision one way or the other. Only in hindsight can you say with certainty, whether it is the one or the other.

    She seems to be in some sort of comfort zone. You need to get her out of there, if you understand what I mean. Because else all the issues will be lingering on.
    As I said in an earlier post, counseling is not a panacea. She might not even need it, but she does need to make changes to her life to address her unmet needs, that led to the situation in the first place. It does not really seem that that is happening.

    I still believe it might be a good idea for you to say "No" on occasion. Reciprocate most of the time but not all of the time. Spend some time out with friends as well. Don't drop out on your friends, if she asks to come over, but tell her you had already made plans to meet up with your friends (when you have).
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  9. #84
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    So she's asked to reconcile, and wants me to move back in with her.

    I've said yes I want to reconcile and move in.. I'm not sure how quickly to take this now. I'm also struggling with how much I should ask her about how she arrived at the decision that she wants to get back together. I've definitely felt her trying and emotionally opening to me over the last few weeks, I asked her when she started thinking about asking to get back together and she said when I was in Chicago.

    She also wants to renew our vows next year (our anniversary is august 25th)

    Obviously I love the fact she wants to do all these things, but I find it a little strange that we went from separated to this level of enthusiasm within a few weeks, and am not sure how to talk to her about it or even if I should talk to her, or just accept this is how she's feeling and that she worked through some issues on her own.

  10. #85
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Upon reading your last post a few times, andyd, it seems to me your gut instinct is trying to tell you something. I believe it's a good thing to listen to it.

    If I'm reading your post correctly, it seems to me you have some reservations. I think there should be more conversation in taking this big step.

    It doesn't seem to be 50-50 at this point, it seems all about her and I hope I'm not being cruel in saying that.

    If it was me, I would take it slower and find out totally where her head is. If she's sincere, and if you do say you want to take it slower, she will abide by that. If she doesn't, well, you'll know the answer then. JMHO, andyd.
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  11. #86
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
    I'm also struggling with how much I should ask her about how she arrived at the decision that she wants to get back together.



    Obviously I love the fact she wants to do all these things, but I find it a little strange that we went from separated to this level of enthusiasm within a few weeks, and am not sure how to talk to her about it or even if I should talk to her, or just accept this is how she's feeling and that she worked through some issues on her own.
    I have to agree with Luba. And these two sentences tell me that if you don't feel good about talking to her because of some reservations or fears you have, than it needs more time. If you can't talk to her now, when will you be able to? Now would be the best time to get all the cards on the table. You both need to be open and honest about everything right now if you even hope to "fix" anything. If I have learned anything during my issues and in talks with others from this site, it is that communication is the key. If you can't talk to your significant other about anything then there is a problem already.

    If you can't get it all on the table now then someday it may all come back to bite you. JMHO. Good luck Andyd.
    The brain is a wonderful organ; it starts working the moment you get up in the morning, and does not stop until you get to the office. (Robert Frost)

  12. #87
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Have to agree with Luba and TKDLady. If I would see this as a first post, I would be inclined to consider something like a mood disorder. Sometimes they are not limited to just one episode, and you might be looking at a repeat of the past few months, if she has another episode. Not saying she has one, but at the moment I would not discount the possibility just yet.

    I am sure you have many questions, which you have not uttered for various reasons. For every question you want to ask your wife, you need to ask yourself:
    1) Do I want to know?
    2) If the worst outcome is not what I'd like to hear, do I want to know?
    It is easy to ask questions which will torment you endlessly. You would be better off not knowing some things, but at the same time you need to know more than nothing to understand your wife.

    It is always good to ask questions such as what she wants with the rest of her life, where she sees herself in 5-10-20 years etc..

    Obviously, you want your wife making these changes for the right reasons, and not ever having to live through this again. At the moment you have many doubts, and your wife needs to put in the hard yards now to dispel them.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  13. #88
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Thanks guys.. Yup you're right, I have to talk to her about some things.

    Before all of this I would have talked to her about anything. I don't want my questions to come off the wrong way, I guess.. but I have to ask a few questions for sure.

  14. #89
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    As long as you make it clear it is to understand better what happened, and not to hurt yourself or her, it should make her a lot more comfortable to talk. I would also not push her for answers. If she says she does not want to answer some questions, accept that for the time being.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  15. #90
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Well I made it as clear as I could that I want to understand what happened to help us, not hurt her or me, and the questions went pretty well. For instance I asked her... "You were feeling like by not having a dating phase that you were missing out on something, how do you feel about that now?"

    She seemed to get down for a bit after we had our talk, so I asked her to talk about how she was feeling, she said she felt I was asking the same questions again and again. I stayed really calm, I explained again why I was asking, and brought up that I hadn't asked anything in 2 weeks, and we had said 2 weeks ago that we were going to talk that day anyway. And that I was asking because I didn't understand what caused us to be separated, that she hadn't talked about why she wanted to reconcile, and I was feeling happy and excited but there was some doubt in my mind about how fast to move, but that I love her and want this more then anything.

    For some reason that really opened her up emotionally. She got into how she's realized she can be independent and be married, which was a big thing, and a lot of other stuff.

    She still doesn't fully understand why she felt that she had to leave, which still does worry me a bit. But we've agreed to go to marriage counselling, and planned a few really good relationship building "dates".

    She's putting a ton of effort into the relationship (she's doing a ton of little things every day), talking to me openly, planning things.. there have been 2 bad moments, but that's actually been me, dealing with some of my feelings still. She seems to be understanding and willing to put the effort into talking to me and reassuring me during those moments.

    So things look very positive.

  16. #91
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Glad to hear that things are looking up now Andy .
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  17. #92
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Oh, Andy, I'm SO glad the conversation is flowing and things are building in the right direction. I am very hopeful that things do work out!

    Just know you are among a family who cares for you and will give you all the positive input you can ever need!
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  18. #93
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Sorry, I realise I may not have been on here long enough to offer advice on such a serious topic but…

    I have two grown sons and I would be very sad if they were going through what you are just now.

    I read the thread but I can’t remember if you said you had any children.

    I find myself wondering, as upsetting as this situation is for the two of you, how is it affecting the rest of your family parents etc.?

    On a personal note, after our divorce, hubby and I ‘dated’ for five years before deciding to leave things as they were. It was nice at times but with hindsight it would have been better to go ‘no contact’ and get on with the business of living and meeting other people because it just made things harder for ourselves and our children.

    I hope things work out for you both. But dating can become a comfort zone. And as nice as comfort zones are they can also be very confining and stop us from seeing the bigger picture.

    Please forgive me. This is like ripping a band-aid off so fast so it hurts less in the long run. Sounds to be like you are doing all the work. I speak as a mother of sons. Putting the no contact rule in place will give you both time to work out just what you want from this relationship - if anything.

  19. #94
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Thanks Luba and Vautrin for your support as always

    Hey Skyler, yes we have one son.

    For awhile I was the only one putting effort into it. Twice I implemented a "no contact" rule (although impossible to truly implement with children, we only saw each other for the minimum necessary) .. when she first left, and then at one point she seemed to be getting angry at me for no reason and being very disrespectful (as I found out later, it was due to her own guilt).

    Obviously it affected my son the most, he's only 3 1/2 so he didn't understand what was happening.

    No one really knows the whole story of what happened other then someone who reads this thread. Some of the more sensitive details that came to light over the last 2 months are really for our ears only, and maybe for the eyes of an anonymous message board

    All our families know is that we separated, had some issues but kept talking and are trying to reconcile now. Neither family (parents, siblings, etc) is really too impressed with her. My Mother least of all

    We aren't stuck in a "dating" loop now.. she genuinely wants me to move back in and return to a committed relationship, and she is putting a lot of effort in now. I'm still struggling a bit with how fast to move things as we did go through a lot.... but I'm really starting to feel like her place is "home", and she is definitely treating me with the love, respect and devotion I deserve.. and with enthusiasm and effort.

  20. #95
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Andy, Again I have to say, trust your gut instinct in how you proceed. If you have any, absolutely any reservations, take it s-l-o-w. If there's is one absolute I've learned in life, and that is to trust my gut instinct; when I haven't, I've paid the price.

    You've been hurt, that just doesn't go away with a quick fix. She's hurting for her own reasons, and that just doesn't go away quickly either. If she comes back too soon, she may just realize why she needed her space and you're back to square one again. I believe, I deeply believe, there has to be a lot of conversation going on and nothing should be off-limits in order to move ahead in peace.

    I think the questions that have asked of yourselves, 'can you frankly and without malice talk about everything that got you both to where you are?' If there is hesitation, that just proves the relationship isn't back to where you can be together totally again.

    Andy, this is just my humble opinion and I hope it's not hurtful in any way. The ultimate decision is your and your partner! I wish you both the best in your journey!
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  21. #96
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Thank you for taking my post in the spirit it was meant - one of concern.

    I agree, no contact is difficult when there are children involved but it is still possible.
    If it should come to it, it is possible to create some boundaries where your son can be picked up and dropped off without either of you getting into a discussion. You make it ‘his time’ not your's or her's.

    You’re beginning to feel comfortable in her home, her territory, under her conditions.

    I understand your mother’s concern.

    I agree with Luba, you should trust your own instincts.

    The heart will show the way but the head will tell you how to proceed.

  22. #97
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Sorry for the silence guys - things are still going well. We talked about a lot - and since then have been enjoying each other's company, even during the mundane moments, and I'm glad I listened to my head and my heart and didn't totally jump back in right away

    I've pretty much been staying there most nights although I didn't move my stuff in until yesterday. We've been reconciling nearly a month and I think both emotionally and financially it's time to live with each other again.

    I still don't 100% understand what happened, perhaps I never will. I can accept that... the important thing is I feel she has been open and honest with me since the end of July, she seems enthusiastic and has been putting a lot of effort into our relationship, and although obviously some of the things that happened are going to take some effort on both our parts, I legitimately still feel I can (and feel as if I almost have) move past whatever happened and move on with our relationship.

    I still plan to update this thread, I have had and am still having some feelings and thoughts I'd like to share with everyone but that won't be today

  23. #98
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    I am glad to hear that you and your wife are in a good position now. It surely is a good sign if you can enjoy the mundane moments.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  24. #99
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    So, I thought I would come back, and post a "the 6 months after reconciliation" post.

    Obviously this message board gets a lot of separation to divorce, or separation to reconciliation posts. I just wanted to give my perspective after reconciliation.

    We were officially reconciled by mid-September. We had taken some time to do some fun dates, go out with each other, rekindle some romance, and finally had the talk about moving back in together. The first few months were great, especially with Christmas coming and our little boy growing and having his first Christmas that he'll probably remember.

    A few things have happened that have made things difficult.

    1. I had told my wife that I strongly believed we should go to marriage counselling, even though we were getting back together. She agreed with me, I told her I thought it should be her responsibility to book the counselling session. She agreed again. Its now February, and we've never seen a marriage counselor. At this point, I'm going to go and see someone on my own and bring it up again at the correct point.

    2. I'm having a really difficult time with the fact that she slept with someone else (duh!), and how many lies she put up around it. I have definitely battled waves of resentment, and once an urge for revenge (I didn't act on it.). I have not once mentioned it to her or taken it out on her, and it's a VERY difficult internal debate about whether to let her know I'm having a hard time with this.

    3. Moving in with her made my drive to work approximately 1 hour each way, which is idle time in the car left with nothing but talk radio, music and my thoughts. Which isn't always a good thing! So we don't get a ton of time together during the week, I get barely any time for my interests, and then on weekends she's been sleeping in because she's having problems sleeping recently, leaving even less time.

    4. We're trying to budget more efficiently to save for a house, leaving less money to go out and do things together. When I come home from my 12 hour+ day (commute + work + OT), we rarely go out except to the grocery store.. somewhere I prefer to plan ahead and only visit 1-2 a week. She doesn't drive so I go as well almost 100% of the time.

    5. I feel like we're exactly where we were a year ago. I don't feel as if she as an individual or we as a couple have dealt with any of the issues that led to our separation.

    Anyway, I'm 100% committed to our marriage, I'm going to surprise her with a romantic day out the next time we have a babysitter. I'm hoping talking about some of the challenges here will help me like talking about the separation did

    My plan right now is:

    - Make time for "me" time, out of the house. Especially the gym.
    - Go to a single counseling session just for myself. Decide if its something I want to pursue. Discuss with her if I still want to do it as "couples counseling"
    - I have a transfer in at my work to an office closer to home to help fix my work/life balance.
    - Figure out a way to start talking to her about any issues that aren't going away. If we can't communicate, and if she isn't at least willing to listen and be understanding, well that says something too.

    thanks again everyone for your time and ears and eyes

  25. #100
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    Re: Desperate separation..

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
    5. I feel like we're exactly where we were a year ago. I don't feel as if she as an individual or we as a couple have dealt with any of the issues that led to our separation.
    This worries me a lot.

    I would strongly suggest you take up a few session of individual counseling and see if you are getting anything out of it. The resentment you currently experience for her sleeping with another guy will only build up and fester if it is not dealt with. Ideally, that also means that you and your wife go to marriage counseling.

    In this case, I would even put your foot down, and insist on it. You can't sustain a relationship singlehandedly, nor can you sustain a relationship in which problems do not get addressed.

    Moving closer may help a bit, but it might also be an idea for your wife to take more responsibilities, so that your dates do not end up being shopping in the grocery store. Make her get a license and a (reasonably old and reliable car), so that she is not as dependent on you.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

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