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  1. #1
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    Unfair Church Ruling

    Appeals Court Upholds Nativity Ban in NYC Schools
    By Susan Jones
    CNSNews.com Senior Editor
    February 03, 2006

    (CNSNews.com) - A federal appeals court in New York ruled it's okay for New York City Public Schools to ban the display of Christian nativity scenes during the Christmas season, EVEN THOUGH DISPLAYS OF THE JEWISH MENORAH AND ISLAMIC STAR AND CRESCENT ARE PERMITTED DURING HANUKKAH AND RAMADAN.

    A conservative group that sued the school system over its policy said Christians should be outraged by the ruling.

    The Thomas More Law Center challenged the ban on nativity scenes in December 2002, on behalf of Andrea Skoros and her two children, who complained that New York City's policy was violating their right to free exercise of religion.

    The city defended its policy by arguing that the menorah and the star and crescent were permissible symbols because they were "secular," whereas the nativity scene had to be excluded because it was "purely religious."

    In February 2004, a federal judge in New York agreed that Christian Nativity scenes do not belong in public school classrooms and he dismissed the lawsuit.

    Skoros appealed, and on Thursday, a higher court ruled against her as well.

    Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the Thomas More Law Center, called the decision another outrageous example of federal courts discriminating against Christians. "This should be a wake-up call for Christians across this nation," he said.

    Thompson accused judges of imposing their ideological views under the pretext of constitutional interpretation.

    In his dissenting opinion, appeals court Judge Chester Straub said it is clear to him that New York City's current policy violates the Establishment Clause by sending the message that Judaism and Islam are favored while Christianity is disfavored."

    He said the city was wrong to define the menorah and the star and crescent as secular and a creche as "purely religious."

    Robert Muise, the attorney handling the case, called the majority decision fundamentally flawed - "and we intend to take this fight to the next level. This battle is far from over," he said.

    The Thomas More Law Center describes its mission as defending and promoting the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life through education, litigation, and related activities.


    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.as...20060203b.html
    -------------------------------

    I think either ALL religions should be represented or NO relegion should be represented. How could anyone find this ruling to be fair?? [/b]

  2. #2
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    Merika, there are many reasons for which I hate living in France; However I loooove the way they feel about church. The State is a laic one, however the Catholic church is receiving mony from the state - a political subtility.

    Otherwise said, the State accpets and embraces christianism and rejects everything else. Seems fair to me .

  3. #3
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    I don't think a government, especially in the US where there is so much diversity, should do anything less than embrace all religions. Oddly enough...it's not the various religions here who are offended by anyone else's beliefs. It's the athiest here who keep attacking a God they claim doesn't even exist. It makes no sense.

  4. #4
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    Either you embrace all religions. Or you embrace no religions. No inbetween there.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vautrin
    Either you embrace all religions. Or you embrace no religions. No inbetween there.
    When it comes to schools...I agree. However, our children are consistently being taught everything but anything relating to Christianity isn't allowed. That's not right.

    Part of the problem is that so many Christians pulled their kids out of public schools early on. Most larger churches have their own schools and there is another portion of parents who home school.

    The same is true for wealthier Americans who, depending on where they live, have lost respect for the public school system. Therefore, the school system became underfunded and without the parental representation they should've had before it all went a little crazy.

    Bush pushing and supporting the Magnet School system...did help a little.

  6. #6
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    I don't know about that scheme, so I can't comment on that.

    If kids drop out, and become criminals that too will cost money, not to mention the possible loss of human life. Invest more, in order to prevent losses later. It is hard to turn a trend, I know. But the gains, both socially as financially would be enormous.

    But how is funding organized exactly anyway?
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vautrin

    But how is funding organized exactly anyway?
    Every homeowner is charged 'school taxes' regardless of whether they have kids in school or not. (It's like paying for the road even if you don't own a car.) Anyway....I think it pays 1/3 of the actual school costs. The rest is a government expense based on the number of kids who go to each school. Children who qualify for disability, remedial or at the other end of the line - gifted courses get more money for the school to use as operational costs. There are also tons of grants available for schools. Some are good...some aren't.

    School's also get paid to provide free or reduced breakfast and lunch for kids who's incomes are less than $26,000 a year (I think that's the amount). In an area like I live, not counting the Navy base, this includes most of the local kids. It's not an embarassment or anything.

    Now, since each child has an 'amount' due to him for schooling each year....some states...such as Florida....have the much argued over school vouchers. This means the state sends the private school or magnet school the money this child would be bringing in if they were in public school. It's been a great financial loss to the public school system.

    Granted, the public schools are over crowded and the money is misappropriated in many areas. I still support the public school system, but I do feel a parent has the right to make a choice if their child should be home schooled or in private schools. I know Randomskater is homeschooled and he probably has a better education than most kids coming out of a public school.

  8. #8
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    I agree, i have no problem with any and all faiths being represented in our public school systems, whether i agree their beliefs or not... in fact i would endorse every religous idea being taught in public schools and in every part of government. Including the teaching evolution, which i don't personally believe in. I believe it gives everyone a chance to voice their opinion and present the facts as they believe them to be. I also believe it gives people the oportunity to disceminate what is truth and what has been distorted. However, banning or preventing someone from expressing their opinion can have the complete opposite effect... preventing factual evidence from being presented in an open forum where it can be addressed by all. This is an political aspect i thought only happened in communist dominated societies. Boy i hope that dosen't happen here.

  9. #9
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    I'm guessing the rationale is that because Christianity is about 80% of the population as opposed to 1% each for Muslims and Jews they feel that it will sneak into schools more often. However, I'd rather not have any of the displays up in school.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogula
    I'm guessing the rationale is that because Christianity is about 80% of the population as opposed to 1% each for Muslims and Jews they feel that it will sneak into schools more often. However, I'd rather not have any of the displays up in school.
    GREAT to see you dogula!!!!!! You've been missed.

    I agree with the display part. Any religion icons and/or discussions should be reserved for a religious class only. It's just like the 'prayer' issue at school. I find it silly. If you are talking to God...you can do it alone at home BEFORE you get to school. Just my opinion.

  11. #11
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    Re: Unfair Church Ruling

    I agree with Merika on all points EXCEPT prayer in school. I see absolutely no reason a child should not be able to pray in school.

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