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  1. #1
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    Does everything happen for a reason?

    I'm interested in replies to the following, especially if you thing things DO happen for a reason:

    Do you think everything happens for a reason?

    Why?

    If bad stuff happens to you, do you always deserve it?

    Why?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    Yes, I do think everything happens for a reason even if I don't know why at the time, but I learn later the lesson I was taught.

    No, I don't think we deserve the bad stuff, but once it comes, one either gains strength from it or wilts under the pressure.

    I do think we get the answers at the end of our lives if we are really listening.
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  3. #3
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meanon View Post
    I'm interested in replies to the following, especially if you thing things DO happen for a reason:

    Do you think everything happens for a reason?
    Shall I quote Hegel???

    Why?
    Of course everything happens for a reason (cause). That is not to say, however there is some force at work, that makes certain we miss the bus, because we overslept, because the alarm did not function properly, because there was an electricity failure. Each of those events has a reasonable explanation.

    It is mainly because of the fact that people are not omniscient that events appear to be random. Which is not to say that random do not exist, but merely that they cannot be predicted with full certainty beforehand, only afterwards.

    The same with human interactions. E.g. if I am highly stressed, I will react differently to people. If people do not know I am highly stressed, they might be amazed or even offended by my behavior, which subsequently leads to "unforeseen" events. However if they had the knowledge I was highly stressed, my reaction would be "predicted", and the unforeseen events would be "logical", "reasonable" if you prefer.

    My answer to the original question, in its intended meaning would be a resolute "No."

    It is often the failure to read the small cues that have a very big impact on people's understanding of each other.

    If bad stuff happens to you, do you always deserve it?
    No.
    Why?
    Life is not fair. Sometimes you get "lucky" , and sometimes you get a raw deal.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  4. #4
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    I guess I don't know how to answer that. My friend's son drown and is now severely brain damaged. Why? I don't see the reason for this. His father is a zombie. He is only living until his son is gone. Then he plans to die. Why? I don't think things happen for a reason. I think they happen because of neglect, because of trying to help, because you did something to make it happen. I guess I am not in a good frame of mind right now.
    The brain is a wonderful organ; it starts working the moment you get up in the morning, and does not stop until you get to the office. (Robert Frost)

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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by TKDLady View Post
    I guess I don't know how to answer that. My friend's son drown and is now severely brain damaged. Why? I don't see the reason for this. His father is a zombie. He is only living until his son is gone. Then he plans to die. Why? I don't think things happen for a reason. I think they happen because of neglect, because of trying to help, because you did something to make it happen. I guess I am not in a good frame of mind right now.

  6. #6
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    Thanks AJ. I guess I needed that.
    The brain is a wonderful organ; it starts working the moment you get up in the morning, and does not stop until you get to the office. (Robert Frost)

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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by TKDLady View Post
    Thanks AJ. I guess I needed that.
    Well I certianly felt like you needed one. I do hope things look up.

  8. #8
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by TKDLady View Post
    I guess I don't know how to answer that. My friend's son drown and is now severely brain damaged. Why? I don't see the reason for this. His father is a zombie. He is only living until his son is gone. Then he plans to die. Why? I don't think things happen for a reason. I think they happen because of neglect, because of trying to help, because you did something to make it happen. I guess I am not in a good frame of mind right now.
    I'm sorry you are sad, tkdlady

    You gave reasons, but I guess what you are saying are that he can't find a reason he can live with, other than to care for his son. Has he had any help (counselling or therapy)?

    I've spoken to two people who have helped parents whose young children who have been killed by drunk drivers. In one case there was nothing that could be done other than provide an outlet to express the grief. In the other, despite years spent as a "zombie" before getting help, the mother found a reason to keep living by transforming her view of the reason why it happened.

    Personally, I don't believe in reasons (apart from causes in the sense that Vautrin described), but most people do and in the same way that they can encapsulate the trauma - as with your friend - they can also provide a means to withstand it without falling apart. For instance, I wonder if knowing him has shown you the true meaning of the love of friendship.


    .................................................. .................................................. ......
    Thanks for your replies everyone

    Luba, do you mean that you think that one of the reasons bad stuff happens to people is to make them stronger or to learn?

    Why do you not think that the reason may be that they deserve it?

    (I'm trying to find arguments within that belief structure - sorry to pick at your response! )

    Still waitingfor hegel, Vautrin.......
    Last edited by Meanon; 09-22-2008 at 07:53 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    I know you are jesting, but: How is your German Meanon? With Hegel translation need to be more than 100% accurate (yes, I know that is impossible), because translations of defined terms always seem to lose essential meanings; and a loose translation will confuse matters more than clarify.

    Strange enough Hegelian psychology is an often neglected field of endeavour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luba
    I do think we get the answers at the end of our lives if we are really listening.
    Then why keep asking if you may have some tea at Duke's?? I guess you are still young.
    The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. - Rabindranath Tagore

    Keep true to the dreams of your youth. - Friedrich Schiller

    The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Theodor Adorno

  10. #10
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    No problem, Meanon, I don't feel picked on at all!

    I honestly don't believe that anyone deserves bad stuff unless they CHOOSE to do bad stuff all the while knowing better, I'm talking about heinous crimes.

    I'll talk about my life so as not to offend anyone about my beliefs. I posted more than once that I was a lonely child, my Dad very much involved in alcohol but was a very wonderful man sober. He had a terrible and tragic young life so the drinking shut it all out, I believe. Mom was busy just trying to survive with no money, spent on booze. No one had time for me, I was just there.

    Now, I could be very bitter, nasty, pity myself "poor me"; but I choose NOT to be, it's all a choice. I SURVIVED all that and honestly looking back on the road to Recovery, I wouldn't change the past, I don't think I would be the loving person I am today. It was a hard climb to get where I am, but I am truly happy now. So, yes, the hard stuff with the lessons learned, a marriage that was a climb, too, because we were both dysfunctional, but we worked at it to where we are now. We weren't the best of parents, and we both had no Role models. We just dug deep and here we are; having fun, laughing, and living in a humble way together.

    Yes, everything happened for a reason to get me to the place I am today. I took each hardship and worked it out, along with prayer and finding a better way.

    I don't know if that answered your question, Meanon, I hope it did.
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  11. #11
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    Yes it does luba, thanks. I get totally what you are saying. I'm trying to paraphase it to avoid various assumptions that a self critical person would make if I had this discussion with them.

    Are you saying that your hardships had a purpose because you learned by going through them that doing things certain ways made them worse? As a result, you were able to make an active choice to find better ways of dealing with them and are happier as a result?


    So tired I know not if I make sense, but will come back to this tomorrow zzzzzzzzz

  12. #12
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meanon View Post
    Yes it does luba, thanks. I get totally what you are saying. I'm trying to paraphase it to avoid various assumptions that a self critical person would make if I had this discussion with them.

    Are you saying that your hardships had a purpose because you learned by going through them that doing things certain ways made them worse? As a result, you were able to make an active choice to find better ways of dealing with them and are happier as a result?
    Yes, Meanon, that's what I'm saying. I never had Role Models, just about everyone I knew used a lot of name-calling instead of dealing with a problem by communication, which resulted in physical and emotional abuse. I grew up with that and that's all I knew. Women got together and talked about their husbands, and not in a kind, loving way.

    We lived on a small farm, our neighbours and relatives had small farms, too. People drank to get drunk, not to have a sociably good time. Lots of fights broke out between the men, or men and their wives. I don't recall a single get-together that was just fun; someone was going to get angry about something. I'm shaking my head at those memories.

    I remember a vivid memory when I was thirteen; I don't recall posting about it. It was/is a memory that changed the Course of my life as it continued over the years to pop in my mind over and over again. I remember Mom calling my Dad names after he sobered up from another drinking binge and I put my head on my arms on the table, telling myself I was never going to be like that, that somehow I would find a way to deal with things better. I can still see that very sad teenager right now as I type.

    It wasn't until I grew up and moved out did I realize that people could live a different way. My husband and I moved into a duplex and the most loving, wonderful, senior couple lived next door and took us under their wing. (Now if THAT didn't happen for a reason, I don't know what did). I witnessed such love between those two amazing people and I just marveled at their marriage. I wanted some of the same; because as I said my husband and I were parents, but quite selfish and dysfunctional.

    My husband's job was suddenly coming to an end a few years later, the whole Plant closed, so being a stay-at-home Mom, I decided I would try to help out with finances. Four of us were hired at the same time and the one lady that totally would help me change everything in my life became my dearest friend, we just clicked instantly. (Another event that happened for a reason) Her husband happened to be a Minister, and I again witnessed an incredible marriage based on mutual Love and Respect; but they threw in laughter. They had incredible wit and I would be in fits of laughter at their exchanges with each other. It was Wonderful!

    So taking the best out of these marvelous examples, I was able to grow and be what I wanted to be. My husband noticed and after a few skirmishes over our father-in-law (I've already posted about that mess) we grew together. We continue to grow together, I love him and cherish him more and more each day! We have SO much laughter in our home, as well as quiet moments to ourselves. We're like comfortable slippers for each other!

    Yes, so for me staying on the unhappy path wasn't an option I wanted in my life, so clearly the events in my life and my course of action led me to where I am today, happy in my own skin and grateful for the people brought into my life to find a better way!
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.


    True love is wanting to give to another person without any thought about
    who’s getting the better of the deal.

    Love always creates, it never destroys. In this lie's man's only promise

    ~All quotes by Leo Buscaglia


  13. #13
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    I was brought up to believe that everything happens for a reason. My mom still believes that, and believes that God has a plan for everybody.

    Myself? I stopped believing that things happen for a reason a long time ago. Bad things happen to good people, what is the reasoning in that?

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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weiser View Post
    I was brought up to believe that everything happens for a reason. My mom still believes that, and believes that God has a plan for everybody.

    Myself? I stopped believing that things happen for a reason a long time ago. Bad things happen to good people, what is the reasoning in that?
    I know how you feel Weiser.
    The brain is a wonderful organ; it starts working the moment you get up in the morning, and does not stop until you get to the office. (Robert Frost)

  15. #15
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    I believe in very few things actually. This is one of them, I do not believe things happen for a reason at all. Random happenstance plays a large roll in day to day life. There is so much "wrong" everywhere I look that I cannot possibly believe that this is happening for a reason. The good in the world seems to be sparks that only a handful of people "dare" to fuel into flames. I truly wish that more people tried to fuel the flames of goodness.

  16. #16
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    Maybe the reasons why "bad things happen to good people" isn't to teach them a lesson. Maybe it's to teach those around them a lesson. Be it a Doctor or the world around them. Lessons are learned through traumatic experiences even if it's simply how to prevent this experience from happening again.

    Just like the boy that now is brain damaged, maybe the lesson or reason this happened wasn't to be revealed for his parents. Maybe there is a Doctor that is learning something valuable for the next patient.

    With all the pain that goes on in the world, I would hope that there is some kind of reason. I don't think I could go on living thinking there wasn't.


  17. #17
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    Re: Does everything happen for a reason?

    I do think that everything happens for a reason but not in the form of predestination as some may think. I don't believe in some master plan nor do I believe in reaping the benefits of being good or evil (at least not in this life).

    I don't think you have to be a good person to have good things to happen to you; you just have to posses a positive outlook. The same would hold true for people who have a negative outlook on things, they may misconstrue good for bad simply due to their frame of mind.
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